ATLS for non-docs..

[Ronald Gross]

Andrew, I couldn't agree with you more!!  That is what the ATTC (Army
Trauma Training Course) is all about.  With a civilian version of that
bad boy I bet we would see some remarkable "attitude adjustments" among
all trauma care givers!
Ron

>>> "Andrew J Bowman" <sumieb at compuserve.com> 10/8/2006 10:20 PM >>>
I have taken BTLS/PHTLS for pre-hospital care.

I have taken TNCC/TNATC & ATCN for nursing and transport.

I have audited ATLS...twice.

All good courses and all give very good information aimed at their
target
audiences.

For the most part, trauma is trauma. certain mechanisms can expect to
cause
certain injuries and here is how you try to find them (history,
physical,
radiology, serial exams, labs, etc).

What is different about them is what the student is taught to do with
that
information.

BTLS/PHTLS = Airway, c-spine and transport to the nearest trauma center
and
maybe IV's enroute.

TNCC and the other nursing aimed courses = Accept this patient from
the
field, help with the initial stabilization (limited interventional
skills
taught for the most part) and either get them to OR, special
procedures, ICU
or transfer.

ATLS = What do you as the physician need to do to get this person
stabilized, lots of interventional skills taught/practiced.

I have said this before, many times on this list, that what I think is
needed is a pan-trauma course. One that puts EMT's, medics, nurses and
doctors together so that the "team" concept of trauma care is taught
from
the very beginning. Not separated into stovepipes of care with each
practice
level only answering to their ilk.

Andrew Bowman
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gustavo E. Flores" <gflores911 at yahoo.com>
To: "'Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list'"
<trauma-list at trauma.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 7:36 PM
Subject: RE: ATLS for non-docs..


>
> I am a third year medical student and a paramedic. I took ATLS last
May
and
> was told that I could not take it as a medical student (not even
audit it)
> but I could audit it as a paramedic. Nonetheless, I asked to be
evaluated
> like everybody else, and I thank the staff for doing that.
>
> Regarding BTLS, I must say that it is oriented to prehospital
personnel.
> Both BTLS and ATLS are great courses and there is GREAT similitude
between
> them. That's the idea (that we all are on the same page)!!! The
target
> audience is the issue between BTLS and ATLS. Teaching an in-hospital
> personnel how to work in a vehicle extrication or how to determine
"load
and
> go" is a "nice-to-know" however they are likely not going to use it
unless
> you volunteer to work at a vehicle collision scene. Similarly,
teaching a
> paramedic how to rule-out a c-spine injury with radiological data is
less
> useful than stressing the fact of proper c-spine immobilization in
patients
> that require such (something that is done at the BTLS). They both
give us
a
> broader sense of the picture but not necessarily will affect our
day-to-day
> activities. I think that ATLS does not teach anything useful to a
> prehospital provider that BTLS / PHTLS does not already teach (at
the
> pertinent level) and BTLS does not teach anything that the ATLS does
not
> already teach (at their pertinent level).
>
> Got the money? Take all of them!! Compare, contrast, enhance your
knowledge.
> Taking ATLS gives a broader picture for non-physician participants,
just
as
> taking the BTLS does for physicians. After all, "live as if you would
die
> tomorrow, but learn as if you would live forever"!
>
> Disclaimer: I am a BTLS instructor.
>
> I think that ATLS should have the "For Doctors" removed and broaden
who
else
> can take the class. After all, regardless of what you learn in any
class,
> you are always bound by your local protocols (that is for
non-physician
> providers). This is similar to ACLS, where non-physicians learn some
things
> that may or may not be able to do depending on local protocols.
Although I
> knew it before taking the class, not being able to get properly
"certified"
> after indeed successfully approving the course made me feel a little
> disappointed. I do look forward to take it again after I graduate
(either
> before or during my residency).
>
> Unfortunately, I do not have access to TEAMS in my medical school.
>
> Gustavo E. Flores Bauer, MSIII EMT-P :.
> EmergencyTeam.Net
> San Juan, Puerto Rico
> Iberoamerican University School of Medicine
> Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic
>
> Cel: 829-770-0707
> Fax: 809-686-6988
> MSN Messenger: gustavoflores911
> Skype: gflores911
> E-Mail: gustavo at emergencyteam.net 
> Web: www.emergencyteam.net 
>
> The Serenity Prayer:
> "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage
to
> change the ones I can, and wisdom to know the difference."
>
> S:.F:.U:.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org 
[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] 
> On Behalf Of Jago Miloguz
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:21 PM
> To: Trauma &amp, Critical Care mailing list
> Subject: Re: ATLS for non-docs..
>
> 2006/10/9, Jago Miloguz <japrak at gmail.com>:
> >
> > does anyone knows can a med student attend ATLS, knowing of course
that
> > he/she will not be certified.
> > ante
> >
>
>
> --
> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
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>


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