[ccm-l] Employment and benefits manipulations
Moore, Rick
Rick.Moore at TriadHospitals.com
Mon Apr 9 14:23:53 BST 2007
Pret,
I agree with you, that for every one welfare cheat there are at least two or three honest hardworking families that just flat need a hand up. I disagree with you that "....99% of them have a huge entertainment system of some kind...." is "more than an exaggeration or reprehensibly malevolent lie". Having worked both as a law enforcement officer and field paramedic, I have been in those projects and other public funded type housing areas, and the majority do have top of the line entertainment centers, computers etc. Spend some time in your ED triage room sometime, Mom and Dad bring all 4 kids in for the sniffles, when asked why they did not see the family doc, they say they can't afford to pay him, yet both Mom and Dad have top of the line cell phones, and each kid is listening to his or her own I-pod and Dad excuses himself to step outside and smoke. My guess is that again you are right, Paramedic Caruso does not have a lot of exposure to "America's honest poor" because they don't routinely call EMS when sick or injured, they just suck it up and keep on keeping on.
You should get out once and a while, you would find that you are not the only one in the world that knows what he/she is talking about.
Rick Moore, RN,LP
College Station, Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Bjorn, Pret
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 7:59 AM
To: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
Subject: RE: [ccm-l] Employment and benefits manipulations
For the love of Christ. Listen to yourselves.
How easy it is to concoct an upside to poverty, and to fatten the lore of welfare manipulation with tales of widescreen televisions and sports cars, while something like 37 million Americans struggle to feed, clothe, and shelter themselves while for the most part cheating no one, and asking for little or nothing, often to their silent and invisible deaths.
" ...99% of them have a huge entertainment system of some kind. All of the fancy gadgets included. Hi-Def surround sound, hi-def flat screen TV and hi-def whatever!... "
This is more than an exaggeration; it's a reprehensibly malevolent lie, clearly penned by someone who hasn't the most remote familiarity with America's honest poor, most of whom work at least as hard as he does: families forced to choose between filling a prescription and paying the rent or buying food; who tolerate their illnesses because they can't afford insurance and going to a doctor would bankrupt them -- or worse, force them into welfare.
How seductively satisfying, the myth that those of us with proper education and good jobs and warm homes and weekly restaurant tabs and hyperactive Netflix accounts are somehow victims of the needy. How utterly obscene to ignore the corporate welfare shoveled into U.S. energy and pharmaceutical and insurance interests, or our half-trillion-dollar debacle in the desert, while enthusiastically shitting on families of four making under $20k per year.
Let's use the crackhead with the Playstation to quantify the creeping failure of our civilization.
How can we not be sick of ourselves?
Pret Bjorn, RN
Bangor, ME USA
-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of RWolfer at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 8:55 PM
To: trauma-list at trauma.org
Subject: Re: [ccm-l] Employment and benefits manipulations
In a message dated 4/8/2007 11:42:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, medic541 at hotmail.com writes:
I have to agree with some of the posts with Dr. Mattox For many years now I
have gone into some of the sate funded housing for people that cannot pay for housing themselves. No matter who you talk to whether it would be a Firefighter, Paramedic or police officer the one thing that all agree on is that upon entering the homes of such people is 99% of them have a huge entertainment system of some kind. All of the fancy gadgets included.
Hi-Def surround sound, hi-def flat screen TV and hi-def whatever! Upon transporting such individuals the first thing that they present is the State funded health card. ( I.E medicare or in Massachusetts Medicaid.) We, the hard working tax payers, pay for all of there leisure and time off. If you collect all of this free care free this and free that what incentive do you really need to have to get off of public assistance?
Public assistance has become a way of life for some. Not a way out as is was intended to be. You have to admit, Dr. Mattox has some valid points.
Anthony Caruso EMT-P
Natick, Massachusetts.
>From: "Ronald Gross" <Rgross at harthosp.org>
>Reply-To: "Trauma & Critical Care mailing list"
><trauma-list at trauma.org>
>To: "Trauma & Critical Care mailing list"
><trauma-list at trauma.org>
>Subject: RE: [ccm-l] Employment and benefits manipulations
>Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 13:38:02 -0400
>
>Actually in that case hypocritical would be the term, not cynical. I
>hold those upscale hypocrites in the same light as all the others who
>want to take everything from everyone and give nothing to anyone.
>
> >>> "Offner, Patrick" <PatrickOffner at Centura.Org> 4/6/2007 1:33 PM
> >>> >>>
>But those same upscale individuals DON'T want to pay for their routine
>and emergent medical care. In fact, many do not have insurance because
>they would rather have a BMW or a large flat screen TV. Yes--getting
>cynical.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
>[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Gross
>Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 10:13 AM
>To: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
>Subject: RE: [ccm-l] Employment and benefits manipulations
>
>Lets be real here - how many of the indigent patients that receive
>free medical care pay for their root canals? In fact, how many
>actually have any dental care at all? None. They go to the free
>clinics at the large city hospitals and get their free dental care
>(that we all pay for), while the dentists you talked about continue to
>serve their upscale suburban families 3-4 days a week and go to their
>country homes the other 3-4 days per week. Same with the "cosmetic
>surgeons" or "sports medicine" ortho guys who do their jobs in nice
>self-owned and self-build private clinics and get paid cash by the
>dentist who blew out his knee and messed up his nose while skiing at Vail.
>
>Cynical, are we???
>
> >>> "Offner, Patrick" <PatrickOffner at Centura.Org> 4/6/2007 11:47 AM
> >>>
>Yes, but it was easier to justify providing some indigent care(say
>10%) when reimbursement for non-indigent care was reasonable and
>appropriate.
>Now that we have to work 3-10 times as hard to earn the same
>income--in the face of inflation and rising malpractice fees--it seems
>harder to swallow the "forced" indigent care we have to provide. It
>seems that at least 50% of the trauma and emergency general surgery I
>see in the ED is uninsured. We still give them excellent care but it
>is getting harder to swallow.
>The dentists somehow seem to have gotten it right. They get 50-80%
>reimbursement on the billings and charge the patient for the rest. And
>the patients are willing to pay for the rest. Most dentists that I
>know only work 3-4 days per week, rarely take call and make a lot more
>money than I do. We on the other hand get about 30-40% of what we bill
>and are contractually prevented from balance billing the patient.
>Moreover, the patients now EXPECT to get their care for free. Why are
>they willing to pay for their root canal but not for their emergency
>appendectomy or their elective colon cancer resection?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
>[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Gross
>Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 8:54 AM
>To: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
>Subject: RE: [ccm-l] Employment and benefits manipulations
>
>Tort reform, insurance company executive salaries, drug company "R&D"
>costs, etc - all part of the solution.
>Not part of the solution - a free lunch and an excuse for all of the
>"disenfranchised" whether their condition is self-imposed or "imposed
>by others" whoever those "others" might be......
>
> >>> "Offner, Patrick" <PatrickOffner at Centura.Org> 4/5/2007 6:46 PM
> >>> >>>
>Dr. Mattox,
>
>While I agree with you almost 100%--don't you believe that insurance
>costs are also out of control--to the point that a lot of people just
>cannot afford them. Your "fix" is just the tip of the iceberg--we also
>need insurance reform as well as tort reform--it is all intertwined.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
>[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of KMATTOX at aol.com
>
>Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 3:01 PM
>To: trauma-list at trauma.org
>Subject: Re: [ccm-l] Employment and benefits manipulations
>
>
>In a message dated 4/5/2007 3:48:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>thoran at sarah.
>br writes:
>
>Of the 30 -40 million US uninsured how many are the fast driving drug
>addicts, or lazy, obese cigarette smokers whom you abhor and how many
>of them are ordinary folks, the people who are apparently easy for
>you to dismiss , the working poor, in jobs that need filling but just
>donフ》 get paid very well , certainly not enough to part with 1,200 a
>month... maybe the receptionist or the cleaner or the guy in the
>parking garage, people who just do NOT appear on your radar because
>they do NOT read a novel a
>week, do NOT know the right people, do NOT belong to the right
>organizations, did NOT go to the best schools. Never mind Dr.
>Crippens friend but what about the disabled, the folks in the other
>car, the unemployed, the unemployable, good cannon fo dder but No FREE LUNCH.
>Never mind that the free lunches are served up in corporate board
>rooms every where, provided by the moms and pops investing in the
>great enterprises that won't provide health insurance.
>
>
>
>In every society, and especially at the local level, provisions are
>made for
>the kind of persons you cite above. Many local good examples exist.
>
>
>These same individuals do not have state sponsored lawyer aid,
>housing aid,
>church aid, food aid, family counseling, cell phones, etc. Why must
>or should
>health care be any different. MANY MANY of the persons you cite
>above CHOOSE
>to not have health dollars available in order to pay for cell phones,
>send money back to family in another country, have a late model car,
>drink alcohol every day, go to cock fights, and have somewhat
>expensive watches and designer
>glasses. I see them every day, and then they expect FREE medical
>care.
>WRONG. One cannot have it both ways. If they go to church, the
>priest
>EXPECTS them to put something in the collection plate and even pay for
>some of their absolution by giving to the church (up to and greater
>than 10% of their
>income). If they need to go to court, they must pay for an
>attorney.
>
>
>I have NO problem for fairness with a prorated calculation of a
>discounted bill based on disability, inability to work (real, and not
>just a matter of a created social welfare state to pay someone NOT to
>work), and a feeling of responsibility for ones own services, whatever
>they might be. It is not the state or the employers responsibility
>to assure that everyone is provided all creature comforts from the cradle
>to the grave. That is a family and an individual responsibility. The
>governmental responsibility is to protect, NOT PROVIDE.
>
>We in every society MUST also address the HUGE profits from insurance
>companies, HMOs, and hospitals whose overhead and payments to upper
>level
>management and stockholders are obscene. The persons who have been
>unfairly
>burdened with the financing of individual health care has become the
>employer, and that is the most unfair of all systems.
>
>Kenneth
>L. Mattox, MD
>Houston
>
>
>
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Ithink that this was intended to be a way of "getting folks thru" but is now a way of life. We have become a society of entitlement and "I deserve and I need" instead of I worked for this. there are now generations upon generations of this. Some of us were raised to work for what we got and pay our own way. I think the only way to change this is to stop it and make people work for what they get. there is plenty of work out there, cleaning roadsides, taking the elderly to appointments ect. We see traumas hurt on ATVs or drunk driving all the time who are on disabiltiy for whatever reason. I think that if you can drive a car or ride an ATV you can work. there is a job for everyone. Heck, McDonalds hires folks with Downs all the time. They are often the hardest workers and very proud of the fact that they have a job and can contribute. I think if you get welfare or medicare you need to do something for it. You dont get something for nothing. Unfortunately we need to change generations of thinking. We are , as a country and as individuals, going broke working so that others can sit around and do nothing. Some of them drive better cars and have better TVs ect than those of us that work our tails off.
RW
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