Chest tube or observe

[Guy Jackson]

I also.

Can't think of many situations where I could not site one in OR, although I
might have to do two if patient goes prone.

Angio/CT is sometimes more difficult, but can always pause the procedure.
The biggest worry is remembering to take a drain with you, but the chances
are that our ICU nurses will have thought of it first! Even if you forget it
you could send to theatre for one, and do a thoracostomy in the meantime.

Guy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ronald Gross" <Rgross at harthosp.org>
To: <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: Chest tube or observe


Agree completely!
Ron

>>> "Peter Clark" <Peter_Clark at wsahs.nsw.gov.au> 2/1/2007 12:38 AM >>>

Excellent question. Lets make it harder - you see no pneumo on CXR but
is visible on CT and patient is on a ventilator (IPPV) with contusion on
CT head.
Should you put a drain in with complications associated with it which
are often forgotten?

In general we have not put a drain in if patients stays in ICU and is
closely observed for changes in airway pressure, resp deterioration in
RR or oxygenation or ABG, change in CXR.
If pneumo gets bigger obviously needs a drain. If goes to OR/Angio etc.
and access to chest is problem prophylactic drain needed.

Interested what others think

P

>>> shebrain1 at yahoo.com 31/01/2007 1:45 am >>>
17 yom, driver, seatbelted, involved in a slow T-bone injury while
making a turn.
at scene, c/o loss of cons for few secs. while en-route to hospital by
EMS, he c/o SOB. EMS team placed drain (Heimlick valve), no gush of air.
in ER c/o left lower ribs tenderness .stable vitals other than Some
abrasions in legs, and nasal lac.
CXR showed small Apical PTX. 1-1.5cm strip. Was this traumatic from the
accident vs by EMS team???
the drain was d/cd. CT scan of chest showed small anterior and
mediastinal PTX. no other injuries on CT abd/pelvis.
pt is sat 100% RA.
pt was admitted with 100% non-rebreather, CXR F/U (in 4hs no changes in
PTX, in 12hours no changes in PTX, in 16h there is increased PTX to
40-50%).

few Questions:
1.Should I put chest tube immediately even if his PTX was 5-10% without
any changes in his sat.
2.my understanding, pt with blunt trauma to chest, if they do not have
PTX on initial presentation, they should be followed by CXR to r/o
occult PTX that might declare itself.
3.as this M&M case now, was the initial plan;[ admit, observe, CXR and
if PTX put chest tube] completely wrong?
4. when can I observe pt with small PTX?


Thank you




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