Veterans Without Healthacare

Fri Nov 16 20:24:57 GMT 2007

LOL since we learned to duck and cover in grade school!  And learned who
Joe McCarthy was ...

It's written over the door to the National Archives, those who do not
learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.  I think we CAN prevent
this, but not until we recognize it's possible. 

Index of suspicion, nu?

Jane

-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Gross
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 2:01 PM
To: Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
Subject: RE: Veterans Without Healthacare

So tell me Jane - just how long have you been wearing those rose-colored
glasses?

>>> "Harper, M  Jane" <M.Jane.Harper at osfhealthcare.org> 11/16/2007 2:12
PM >>>
The scariest part, to me, about Mike's scenario is the vision of soup
lines and burning mark notes ... we know what happened in Germany after
THAT.  Don't tell yourself it couldn't happen in the US.  The difference
is that when fascism comes to America, wrapped in the American flag and
carrying a cross and a Bible, it will be armed with nukes and biological
weapons.  And then, earning Euros won't protect you from the raining
death.

----------------------
Jane Harper, PhD(c), RN, ACNP, CCNS, CCRN
Trauma Advanced Practice Nurse
OSF St. Anthony Medical Center
Rockford, IL
815-227-2539 or pager 548
m.jane.harper at osfhealthcare.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org 
[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Mike Smertka
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 1:04 PM
To: Trauma &amp, Critical Care mailing list
Subject: Re: Veterans Without Healthacare

----The government-run VA system is a mess, as Michael Moore has pointed
out in his last "documentary". 

  Liberal though I may be, I certainly would not use Michael Moore as a
source for anything except entertainment. 
    -------So, now he (and a good segment of America) wants to make all
health care in the US government-run as well? This does not compute,
Will Robinson.

  Here are a couple of points I see:

  A good segment of America has the political will to change the current
system. The current healthcare system in America from trauma to medicare
is a total failure. The idea of employer paid systems puts undue legacy
costs on companies driving up the cost of products, driving down demand,
and reducing the number of total workers. 

  A system where "everyone" pays, the mythical single payer system,
means only the producers of society pay, afterall if it is deducted from
your paycheck, you have to actually get a paycheck to deduct from.
Currently the amount of consumers in society in the US far outstrips the
producers. So I can predict right now that this idea will never work.
Would love to see what the UAW worker says when told he/she is paying
for everybody's healthcare.

Emergency care is far more expensive than preventive care, yet in
America the safety net is the emergency system. With more people
utilizing the ED, which legally is obligated to "stabilize" patients,
puts undue burdon on hospitals and they close or restrict service.

  If you do not rehab the infirm, they cease to become producers and
become consumers. Do you want the US to be a society where there is
massive amounts of poor people living on the street? Conjures up images
I have seen of people standing in soup lines or burning wheelbarrows
full of Marks because it was more useful to heat your house than use at
the store as currency.

  My family's Health insurance has increased almost 20% per year for the
last 5 years. Recently there was a statistic on Yahoo news that less
than 50% of US households make >40k per year. Private insurance is
quickly pricing itself out of the market. One of my collegues who is
working on his PhD shared with me that between 25% and 55% of american's
are either un or under insured. (depending on how you manipulate the
stats)  1/4 of Americans unable to pay for their healthcare is a scary
number. 1/2 even scarier to me. Many of my classmates have expressed
that private insurance is simply making as much as it can before it no
longer can sustain itself.(Imagine that, a group paying to put out
propaganda on how anything other than what is best for them would be
terrible.) If that turns out to be true, It would mean that one day,
there would be no place to get insurance from. Or it would be so
unaffordable only the very top earners (who are less likely to need
healthcare than the
 average middleclass or underclass) would be able to afford it.
Healthcare facilities would close left and right. How about the scenario
where you make a doc appointment 2 months in advance and have to pay the
whole thing in cash up front? Because after once or twice your credit
would be so destroyed from medical bills, you mastercard would be
rejected by the hospital's verification. If you have never had the
pleasure of seeing how the underclasses live, a single emergency bill
can destroy the lives of sometimes 4 generations economically. I dread
the day I have to see a family watch a loved one die because of a simple
illness (like a bladder infection) that cannot be treated because of the
cost of going to the doctor is too much. Do you think the FDA, or boards
of pharmacy would accept making all medications available without a
prescription? Never again would you need a pharmacist or a doctor for
that matter. Just look up what you need online, free at the library then
go
 to the corner and buy your meds.

  I have heard the propaganda for the research card too. Without all the
cost there would be no new research. Of course all the countries that
are opening up research labs because of the low cost as well as talented
help as well as lower legal/ethical obstacles for research would be very
upset to hear that.

  What about the quality of care in the US according to the WHO list? we
spend the most and the last I heard we were as low as 30-47 on the list
of industrialized nations in health of societies. There is a number to
be proud of.

  So it is only a matter of time before our system totally collapses. It
seems to me the only alternative is a socialized healthcare, paid for by
a Value Added Tax on consumers. Because of the aging population,
consumers will outnumber producers for the forseeable future.  I didn't
come up with the theory of VAT, but lets face it, the Europeans and
Canadians have figured something out. (charging consumers rather than
just producers) Is this surprising considering to them healthcare is a
value of society that trumps individual gain. JFK thought that was a
good concept, "....what you can do for your country." Of course it might
mean that the amount of electronic goodies we have may need to decrease
or that $4 for a cup of coffee may be out of the question.

  Having said all this, I doubt very much the US population is going to
accept a VAT. I'd bet the farm everyone will lose their desire for
healthcare at the mention of it. From AARP to Public Assistance groups.
The whole fixed income vs. rising price issue. 

  I don't believe for a second there is a capable politician in the US,
from any party, that has the strength of will or courage to impose this
without bending to public antimosity to it and winding up with a half
measure that is just as bad. I also agree 100% that the current way
things are done by the US gov. that the system would be anything less
than a bureaucracy that is diffiucult if not impossible to navigate for
the average person resulting in the same fine care our veterns' have
been treated to. 

  In light of all this, I follow the best safety tip I ever heard. "Make
sure you have an out." So when it all comes crashing down, I'll be
earning Pounds or Euro. Not that I am unpatriotic, just that I don't
want to be standing in unemployement with a bunch of other healthcare
workers trying to figure out how to pay for my next meal, much less next
visit to the doctor or prescription. 

  Sincerest respects,
  Mike

Richard Wigle MD FACS <rlwigle at yahoo.com> wrote:  You'd rather have a
system run by the "people who know it
best" the insurance CEOs??

--- bensonblues at comcast.net wrote:

> The government-run VA system is a mess, as Michael Moore
> has pointed out in his last "documentary". So, now he
> (and a good segment of America) wants to make all health
> care in the US government-run as well? This does not
> compute, Will Robinson.
> --
> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/ 
> 

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